I just read the updated POCA articles below (thanks Shauna!). Can we say u-g-l-y? People who invested a fortune in an education with the goal of helping others are having a hard time getting by.
I define a good standard of living as being able to live a life relatively free of financial stress, feeling prepared should misfortunes fall and being able to look after oneself.
The majority of acupuncturists don’t have this standard unless they work at exploiting other people (think acupuncture schools, the way I’m thinking about Pacific College of Oriental Medicine). How many school administrators are laughing their way to the bank as earnest students and graduates mortgage their futures to an overpriced education with zero job prospects? I say zero job prospects because $35K per year, which seems to be the average annual salary of an acupuncturist in 2012 (according to the posts below) DOES NOT AFFORD ANYONE A GOOD STANDARD OF LIVING (the reason for working in the first place).
Let’s say it again: AVOID ACUPUNCTURE SCHOOL.
https://www.pocacoop.com/james-restons-appendix/post/dont-go-to-acupuncture-school
https://www.pocacoop.com/james-restons-appendix/post/replicability-and-the-economics-of-practice
Pacific College of Oriental Medicine NY Issues 
Posted by TM on June 10, 2012 at 6:13 pm
Thoughts on the current situation for new LAc’s and students or those contemplating this as a career.
Yesterday’s mail contained a David SInger flyer for a marketing seminar specific to LAc’s/DOM’s in Chicago 7/14-7/15 – 2012
Inside the flyer: “Don’t become a statistic. Over 90% of newly licensed LAc’s go out of business within just 4 years.”
Yes, they are selling their marketing program so they might have exaggerated a bit but not by much. Pal informed me that SInger Seminars charge high dollars for their materials, dvd’s, etc.
I’m in my mid-50’s and have practiced OM for almost 20 years…this is not my 1st professional career or 1st business. I will practice until I can no longer do so, which is still another 15 – 20 years. If I was just now a younger self and contemplating acu school…no way would I consider this a good investment of time, money, loss of family time, etc. I have told numerous interested potential students to spend their time and money to go to Osteopathic or Med, PA or NP school. Some have listened…others not so much.
It’s a heck of a lot easier to earn a living at this now than it was a couple decades ago. Newbies, think about what the senior acupuncturists went through to get where they are now. Major dues were paid. How many of you formed state assocations, got laws passed, etc. It was a different time.
There are good and bad in every profession. Some are cut out for this and others are not. I’ve read a lot of crying over spilled milk. Face it, many of you got conned by the schools and were extremely naive. I’ve thought for the most part, that the alphabet soup of acu educational groups and/or schools have just created jobs/income for themselves. The art of Oriental Medicine is a life long process.
It was my understanding a number of years ago that the ratio for acudoc to population should be about 1 LAc per 75K people. I suspect in a lower income per capita situation it would be a significantly higher number of populace for each LAc.
Several of the newbie LAc’s are resorting to Groupons, etc That is “fee splitting” very illegal. Look it up. Some newbies are going to work for senior LAc’s with non-compete clauses and still trying to pilfer patients away to their little apartments for lower fees…most unsuccessful at keeping it secret for very long and some getting sued for it.
Well established practitioners will still be in practice long after those newbies have been sued, served cease and desist letters and/or disgraced in their peer group.
Posted by goodmedicineforbadschools on June 12, 2012 at 3:08 am
That was a great posting of links and the reply by “TM” was another light shined on the non-ethical elements in acupuncture.
It wasn’t the weasels running the schools that finally turned my stomach in the end and made me walk out of the acuschool nightmare with my 70k in debt. True, the folks running the schools ARE super duper oily. And the acupuncture accreditation business and the national testing business turn out to be partners with the weasels running the schools, and they are staffed by some of the same people. I noticed that the weasels from one school go on “accreditation site visits” to hang out with weasels at another school. Then they make up a bunch of baloney about how great they each are and call it an accreditation process. That too is all stomach turning pathetic weasel business.
However, what really, really turned my stomach was watching the students who suck up to the weasels in order to get their degree and continue the scam. That made me realize that not only is the profession educated by a pack of weasels, the people who would be my fellow practitioners would be . . . yep . . . creatures that suck up to weasels. Not a rosy picture for the future of Chinese medicine in American.
The public partly judges competence of new acupuncturists by the respectability (or lack thereof) of the school they have attended. So as each acupuncturist hangs their degree on their wall they are also hanging the pact between schools and alumni to “shut your mouth” about their mutual incompetence. Acupuncture school diplomas should just be called that; “shut your mouth” pacts.
After looking into POCA coop’s james-reston-appendix, I had a strong urge to know if the community acupuncture folks are able to be honest enough about what a scam acupuncture schools are to actually confront the schools as an organization. Since I did confront the schools, I know that there is no credibly complaint process inside or outside the schools. CAN has confronted the economics of cash medical businesses with clarity, but they all have diplomas on their walls from these incredibly pathetic schools.
Does CAN have the spine to critique the economic investment they have made in a pyramid scheme? Or will they use the amazing nature of Chinese medicine as a rationalization for not putting an end to the scam schools that holds everyone for ransom?
Will community acupuncture just become a big trendy organization that works hand in hand with those scam schools in exchange for a stable piece of the economic pie? Or will they make the next revolutionary step and apply preventative medicine to this sick system?
I hope they take the revolutionary path, I’m ready to purge some parasites.
Posted by Maria Zarate on December 8, 2012 at 1:35 am
Do you know if it’s possible to file a class action lawsuit against PCOM?
Posted by goodmedicineforbadschools on December 8, 2012 at 9:58 pm
I believe any class action lawsuit should address the waste, fraud, and abuse of student investment at ALL of the schools.
Posted by Anonymous on March 13, 2013 at 4:41 pm
Let’s work on it. We have to relieve our debt load. E-mail me. Docbam@gmail.com
Posted by Carnevali on January 25, 2013 at 3:12 pm
Waste of time and money. Worst mistake of my life. I attended both Pcom and tsca. I barely make 15k a year on acupuncture. I had to return to school and are in the long difficult process of obtaining a second bachelor/master degree in occupational therapy while juggling three children. AWFUL! Everyday I am haunted and regret my decision to attend this program. Many many classmates I have graduated with returned to school with the same feelings and same dilemma. Maybe if the entire program was 15k I wouldn’t have such ill feelings.
Acupuncture is nothing more than a fun party trick.
Posted by Anonymous on January 27, 2013 at 5:29 pm
Wow! Yeah, I also got caught up in the hype of acupuncture schools and the delusional thinking. I went to both PCOM NY and TSCA. I don’t want to admit how much money I owe in student loans. I no longer work in the acupuncture field at all. Its a shame that the federal government allows this to go on. How can they allow us to borrow so much money for non-existent employment prospects when we graduate? Acupuncture isn’t even listed as a career with the Department of Labor. There are no caveats for prospective students. The schools don’t tell you that they are only nationally accredited and not regionally, which means that even though you may get that Master’s degree in acu, you’ll have a hard time transferring ANY of those credits to any legitimate regionally accredited school when you figure out that you just wasted years of your life and mucho mucho money on folly. I didn’t graduate from school to wait tables or pursue another profession but that is what life is looking like these days. Other classmates I know are struggling, many have returned to school for nursing degrees. The federal government really needs to step in here and take a look at the practices of these schools and the snake oil that they are selling. Let’s have a healthy dose of reality and stop this magical thinking about what it means to be a ‘healer’ in the real world. If these practitioners are so exceptionally talented, then why are they teaching in the schools? Because there aren’t any jobs out there!
Posted by Anonymous on January 28, 2013 at 8:40 pm
I feel your eternal pain. Between the student loan debts and the time invested into studying I have become fried only to have to do it all over again. Not a single credit transferred into any of the regionally accredited programs I applied to. Ultimately, I was forced to begin at a community college and then transfer into a university of choice. Additionally, I am no longer granted any student loans at the undergraduate level and are forced to pay exclusively out of pocket which is only making the process longer and more enduring since I am obviously not making an income as an acupuncturist. It’s as if I’m 18 again and struggling through college and expenses only harder with three children and a mortgage in tow. I feel extremely bitter against these programs. The government refuses additional loans and yet not even one course transferred into my regionally credited school. Yet, here we are and now what can we do? I feel the need for restitution and these schools should eat the costs of our tuitions. If we wanted to be starving artists we all would of attended art schools. I lost so many financial years securing my future for myself, my husband and my children. everyday I am clamoring to regain control and get in front of the eight ball. Does anyone feel we can sue, regulate or save others from this peril? Everyday I try to find the good in this experience but when your struggling and forced to start over when you never even had a chance to get started you can only remained pissed.
Posted by Anonymous on March 13, 2013 at 4:35 pm
We should honestly work at filing a class action lawsuit against not only the acupuncture schools but the department of education for allowing students to borrow such a large amount of money to study a profession that has little to no labor statistics. Certainly not enough to inform these institutions that the amount they loan could realistically be paid off one day. Anyone who is interested should e-mail me and we can discuss starting the process. I am dead serious about this.
docbam@gmail.com
Posted by Sara Klins on January 22, 2016 at 6:07 pm
The oriental accupuncture “schools/universities” are money making rackets. They burden YOU the stupdent with tons of debt, maybe some sort of miniscule “scholarship”–1000-2500$ discount and get you there based on PR propaganda/marketing sales tactics with overt smiling and USA happy talk. STAY AWAY from those “schools”
Posted by Sara Klins on January 22, 2016 at 6:11 pm
Review their 990 tax forms–you’ll get a long and lovely look at these oriental school medicine/health/accufraudure finances–“deans” “presidents” making 6 figures or close to it–they make dinero OFF of oriental medicine not in it. They make money OFF of you, off of book sales, tactics, tuitions, courses, whatever–you cannot make a reasonable living in accufraudure–$15-30K gross salary is a joke—add on huge stupdent loan debts, rent, car, insurance, utilities, retirements, etc… .
Posted by Petre on February 2, 2017 at 10:44 pm
Great posts—these “schools” like most in america are predatory–looking for the naive, brainwashed, guillable–close to most americans–to pay loans/monies to these shyster unis. The key in the failed state is to get money–hustlers. It does not matter how you get the money, as long as you get the money. Ethics, integrity, honour–are foreign concepts in the us. Hence, why america failed–an empire of hustlers, hucksters, and opportunists all clamoring to get “rich”.